Wall of Mouths

I live in Northern Ireland and bloodthirsty terrorists are exactly what the IRA (and other paramilitary groups such as the UDA,INLA etc etc) are.,and i think i understand the situation a hell of a lot fucking more than you do.Why do you support terrorist organisations?

Title: Split thread

This thread has been split from I’m Getting Married…. If you want to continue discussing this topic please do so with due sensitivity and please, no more personal insults. Thanks.

trigger wrote:

i support IRA as i support ETA or November17th or RAF or Brigatte Rosse. killings of innocent civilians is not nice but these organizations fight (or fought) for a cause which i support.

As a German I have to make my satement to your mentioning of the RAF.
I don’t think anyone has a right to kill other people only because he thinks he does so with the best intentions.
This is why terrorism in general, be it left-wing, right-wing or due to any religious beliefshould be supported.
I think no one who sees violence as an apt way to change society according to his opinion has understood a bit about what democracy is all about.

@ Trigger
So you support the Chechian people who killed innocent Russian attenting the rock fest?????

trigger wrote:

but i surely also wouldn’t cry for many of the victims of the so called terrorists.

So you wouldn’t mind if someone you care about is on holiday in spain and gets killed by an eta-bombcar ???

It isn’t because of the fact that threir ideas may be ok, that they also have the right to kill. In belgium there was a left-wing terrorist-group in the 80’s called ccc, they always warned the people if they were bombing something, mostly capitalistic buildings like banks and stuff, to avoid innocent victems. In my eyes that’s a more “humain” way of solving your little problems, but still violence is a sign that your to weak to solve it with words.

I happen to be republican and have been for a long time, No one want’s to see innocent people killed but war is war, if you believe this is just terrorism then then the british/irish media have won a black propaganda war. This is not a religous fight, many of my close friends are protestant (half of them i don’t know what they are), The british also committed far more atrocities both here and in A LOT of other countries than the IRA. Most of the loyalist paramillitaries are british run ,funded ,and armed.

You said earlier:

Quote (author unknown):

did you feel any less safe to walk out to the streets because of IRA

Yes actually. I’m a Protestant living in South Armagh and my town, which is largely Protestant, due to its locaiton has been attacked many times in the last 30 years. By the IRA. My family’s business has been destroyed 3 times in the last 12 years by IRA bombs, all because it happened ot be near a police station. A police station by the way that is largely unmanned. When the IRA are bombing your home village you feel a lot less safe walking out “to the streets”. Asshole.

Quote (author unknown):

these people did not become terrorists because they love to kill, they chose a way for fighting for what they believe and i respect them for that.

My dick! I know several people who have joined the IRA over the years or been involved with it. It’s a criminal gang! They get involved because it runs racketeering rings right across Ireland and the USA and they get a share! I agree once upon a time that the IRA was a just organisation and there was a reason and a need for it. But that time has passed. It is over. (

And some stupid fuckwit who doesn’t even live here is trying to tell us otherwise?)

Quote (author unknown):

it is easy to blame the terrorists, like bush blamed bin laden and muslims and his justification for the 11/9 attacks was that bin laden hated freedom and was jealous of usa, but i choose to blame the ones who created the conditions so that terrorists groups can be formed

I take your point, sir. But that hardly justifies flying a fucking plane into a building full of innocent civilians. I am extremely anti-Bush but I am also extremely anti-Osama. You choose to blame those who created the conditions so that terrorists groups could be formed? Man you’re gonna have to blame all of Western civilisation since the year 0. It’s the nature of mankind to leave shit and misery behind him. Modern Islamic terrorism began at the time of the Crusades. And though the US might have agitated it so has every other fucking nation in the Western hemisphere.

Of course it’s easy to blame the terrorists. They’re the ones who flew a fucking plane into a building! They’re the ones who blew up a busy shopping street at the busiest part of the day!

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i do not agree with blind bombings where innocent people can get killed. but i surely also wouldn’t cry for many of the victims of the so called terrorists

Oh right, so when the IRA shot postmen (they’re “agents of the Crown” you know!) that was ok? Delivering fucking letters for your living is a crime against Ireland? You don’t agree with blind bombings? You’re obviously confused because a few lines up you tried to defend Osama Bin Laden.

Quote (author unknown):

Most of the loyalist paramillitaries are british run ,funded ,and armed

Jello I respect you, or have so far. But don’t talk shite. The British intelligence services have funded whatever group served their purpose. They’ve helped the IRA as well with money and training! And coming out with this crap that the loyalists are ALL trianed and funded by the British. That’s balls! That’s stupid IRA propaganda! There may have been links in the past but the British do not run them or arm them! Propaganda! That’s what the IRA tell the Americans to con money out of them!

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The british also committed far more atrocities both here and in A LOT of other countries

So has every fucking country on the planet! It just so happened that Britain rose to prominence in the last 200 years.

Quote (author unknown):

No one want’s to see innocent people killed but war is war, if you believe this is just terrorism then then the british/irish media have won a black propaganda war

War is war? Shotting off duty police men in front of their kids is war? Shooting postmen is war? A black propaganda war?! Jesus Christ man! Listen to your fucking self! You’re the one listening to propaganda you twit!

Back to that other fuckwit, Trigger:

Quote (author unknown):

not religious like chechens have

The fucking Chechyens want INDEPENDENCE! That is what is called a politcal aspiration! sure religion is involved but it is at its core a political aspiration. Do you even fucking know what an aspiration is?! Well since you don’t know what full stops, commas, and captial letters are then I’m thinking you may be in difficulty. Can you use a fucking dictionary?

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demonizing IRA and thinking of them as the root of evil you aint gonna solve any problem either

He never said they were the root of evil. But then again, neither are the British, or any other side. They all share the blame in different ways. Including the IRA.

Here’s the thing: The majority of the population of the island of Ireland voted for this thing called the Good Friday Agreement. Have you heard of it? It was a “political” framework to bring peace to Ireland. Now politics is by definition a way of coming to an agreement without resorting to violence. Now if the majority of people wanted this Agreement then why the hell can’t everyone live up to it? The IRA have been asked over and over again to give up their weapons. Now why haven’t they? The will of the people demands it. And the IRA are all about the people aren’t they?

Bah! You apologists for gangsterism masquerading as freedom fighting disgust me!

And before you start into me, I hate loyalist terorism equally but on this occasion I launched into republicans because that was the issue at hand, so don’t try and swing the argument over into something else to avoid the heat.

And Trigger? Learn to use some fucking grammar before trying to have a proper argument.

trigger wrote:

@badkarma
it is your opinion and i respect it but you are the one who started calling me names because you don’t agree with my views. perhaps you should consider respecting other opinions too. and i think you should see the whole picture, by demonizing IRA and thinking of them as the root of evil you aint gonna solve any problem either.

Thats shit i am not demonizing the IRA (or any other paramilatary groups from Northern Ireland) but for the last 30 odd years these groups have been the root of all evil in Northern Ireland.

Trigger have ever even visited Northern Ireland?What do you know about Northern Ireland?

And now to that point you made about the IRA making people feel unsafe to walk down the street and the answer to that one is a big fucking yes.And the terrorist activites of the loyalists have make everyone feel unsafe as well.There are areas in Northern Ireland where people are still scared to enter.

Was going to have a say, but Hairy Joe and Bad Karma seem to have summed up the point pretty well. Will say that, having been caught up in a bomb scare in the Eighties, worrying that a friend was caught in the Manchester bombing a few years back (she missed it by a couple of hours) and having been evacuated from the London Underground 2 weeks ago, terrorism does affect people’s lives on a day to day basis (ever wondered why there are no litter bins in railway stations in the UK?), and to think otherwise these days is quite astoundingly naive next time do your homework!

Since terrorist activity decreased in NI, more businesses have been prepared to invest there, so more jobs, more prosperity etc, for all sides of the community. So much for terrorism actually achieving anything, execept in it’s absence.

Sorry Teethtrinder, and sorry to those I insulted, I know I was out of line. It wa slate, I’d had a few and it was a topic which is particularly sensitive ot me.

Again, apologies to everyone.

The thing that annoys me about NI is that its happy to let wankers like George Bush use it as an example of a place where americans brought peace. Its no coincidence that he met Blair in Belfast on the eve of the Iraq war. Ive been in New York for the last month and when i phoned home last week i found out that my parents had been evacuated from their home in what is normally a peaceful little street in Bangor cos Loyalist paramilitaries decided to play their nightly “throw the pipebomb” antics on their street. A prison officers wee daughter carried it into the house cos she didnt know what it was. Thank God no-one was hurt. Im sorry its a bit off topic but it was freakin me out a bit.

Ok, im pissed off, so i apologize in advance for any grammar mistakes, and/or excessive swearing.
Firstly trigger, english is not your mother language, which i assume means your not irish, so HOW DARE YOU speak about a topic like this? You dont have a FUCKING CLUE about the IRA or about the UDA, or any of the many organizations in the north/south of ireland.
I’m from Cork, Ireland, and i’m lucky that there have never been any real out in the open IRA activities, as its in the south (some northerners resent that, but most dont).
My great gran uncle was lord mayor of cork and commander of the 1st cork brigade of the IRA, but at the time, i think he was perfectly justified, also he was a evry peaceful man, who mostly solved problems with politics and supported the treaty, unfortunately he was shot dead in 1920, by the black and tans, officialy it said by the RIB. I do not hold ANY resentment against english or northern irish, or anyone about this. at the time things were different. the people who killed him were bad people, just as there are bad people in every country.
The IRA dont have any reasons to bomb the people they do, to maim and kill innocents, sometimes on purpose. its just a sick game, a circus created for money, there is no “cause” anymore, its all bullshit, there are very few real IRA people anymore.
Things like bloody sunday spark off violence and pro-IRA support, but in fairness to the british government, they arent the ones sending troops of fuckwits into the north anymore. The main problem is the organizations mentioned, fighting amongst themselves.
I would support a free northern Ireland, of course i would!, but by the means Daniel o Connell would have taken, oh i forgot, you probably dont know him, he used speech, not violence. And it worked. It Works! which renders the IRA’s “cause” crippled.
Lastly, i think the IRA have ceased operations as such, i think they have turned in all their weapons, however i dont think the Real IRA have, or the prov IRA. so until these org.s go, and the pro-loyalist ones, theres no chance for peace.
Therapy? embody for me the image of a perfect Ireland, protestants and catholics friends, making music together.

Ever heard of a Depeche Mode song called People are people, well, if not…download it and listen very carefuylly to those lyrics…they say it all!

Ronald wrote:

Ever heard of a Depeche Mode song called People are people, well, if not…download it and listen very carefuylly to those lyrics…they say it all!

Don’t know where you’re posting from Ronald, but that song made DM a laughing stock in the UK from which they’ve never recovered, mainly because a naive ‘happy clappy’ ‘why can’t we all live together’ approach doesn’t actually address people’s real fears and grievances or recognise their pain and loss.

As it happens I am Anglo-Irish, with an Irish mother and English father. My Irish family live in County Louth, close to the border. Like most Irish people, all they want is a life free of violence and intimidation. They see the republican groups and the loyalist groups as little more than armed criminals engaged in a turf war with the ‘freedom’ tag on the one hand and the ‘must keep our traditions’ on the other as no more than a smokescreen. They want it all to stop.

It’s very romantic for people like Trigger to support the underdog (which is my impression of where he’s coming from), but actually this does nothing to address the real issues.

Now, lets talk about a Mandela-style ‘Truth and Reconciliation’ comission for Northern Ireland. This alone seems to have prevented South Africa following down the road taken by Mugabe’s Zimbabwe. A commission would give all sides chance to reflect on their own and each others losses and could provide a platform for moving forward. Crucially it could deny the armed gangs any opportunity for self justification and marginalise them to the point where they no longer have any support.

Sorry. Rant over.