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feminist views on pornography

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Started by tatty seaside town in Chit-Chat

“pornography is the theory, rape is the practice”
(Robin Morgan)

vs.

from a women’s rights point of view, including from a reproductive freedom point of view, censoring pornography is damaging.
(Nadine Strossen)

Just asking …
what do you think? I read alot of both ideological sides currently.

Posted on Tue, 9 November 2004 at 22:00

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#1

allroy wrote:

I’d go with the second point of view.

Whether porn is just a step towards rape depends on the way it serves its purpose of stimulating the viewer’s sexual fantasy and, of couse, the fantasy itself.
Censorship to just seems to be appropriate where human rights are violated (e.g. rape scens, snuff movies etc).

I think sex scenes based on mutual consent shouldn’t be censored at all.

I believe feminists just don’t like porn as it’s dominated by men. If you take pornography from a gender independent pointof view, they’d find it difficult to argue. So have more porn directed by women or shot from a woman’s point of view.

Posted on Tue, 9 November 2004 at 22:33

#2

JSar666 wrote:

I’d go with the second one too.

I mean, I watch lots of porn and I haven’t raped anyone.

Rape existed before porn.

It’s like saying rock music makes people kill themselves.

Yes, some porn is misogynist, but not all of it is.

Posted on Tue, 9 November 2004 at 22:56

#3

Modified Monkey wrote:

Title: Porn is good!

Porn is good, So is Sex. I think people should lighten up and fuck more

(Before changing the message boards’ software in August 2007 this post had a file attachment, which may return in the future)

Posted on Tue, 9 November 2004 at 23:03

#4

White Psycho wrote:

the only way someone is going to rape someone else because of porn is because they aren’t quite right in the head. To me its the similar as the violence in movies and video games issue. Parents see it as a way to shut their kids up for a while, whereas they should take an interest and teach them that there’s a difference. That kid got killed another kid after playing manhunt, it wasn’t the game’s fault, it was his, people just can’t accept responsibility.
Anyway back to the actual issue I think censorship is bad almost anywhere because it creates a market where people want to see it because its banned (Cannibal Holocaust and The Exorcist until recent years as examples)

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 00:04

#5

allroy wrote:

White Psycho wrote:

the only way someone is going to rape someone else because of porn is because they aren’t quite right in the head. To me its the similar as the violence in movies and video games issue.

Agree with you. I think it’s not that you rape/kill someone because of the movies you’ve seen but some people seem to watch those movies because they already have these raping/killing fantasies for something went wrong with them at some point in their lives.

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 00:11

#6

tatty seaside town wrote:

there is a second argument from the anti porn point of view.

Its not only that porn provokes real direct harm to women.
Secondly, and perhaps more important, is the abstract idea behind it. Women are just object, no human (subject) anymore. Its the patriachat (men are the leaders of the world and society in every kind, cause they are biological stronger) that makes the idea of pornopraphy real. The women in porn are fucked and harmed in reality. So its not the point to compare it with computer games.

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 09:00

#7

motherh666 wrote:

hmmm… porn. good.

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 09:03

#8

allroy wrote:

I think your second point is not a general one. I f women would start making porn where men are abused as sexual objects who suffered through this, the argument would fail, or more general, movies, where the sexual partner, regardless of his gender, is abused as a mere object.

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 09:23

#9

tatty seaside town wrote:

if this argument comes, they say:

women and men should be not seperated in the way of thinking.

so there is just one way of sexuality and its violation, cause its male sexuality. the penis is a weapon, which penetrates women and does harm.
Just when the patriachat is abolished, then there can be freedom and sexuality for women and men.

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 09:29

#10

allroy wrote:

Oh boy, they should stick the sexuality up their a… :o Erm, better not.

But this is ridiculous. What’s the lesbian point of view then? Or do feminists have a problem with homosexuality as well?

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 09:32

#11

tatty seaside town wrote:

of course they do! :)

lesbian porn magazines are to be banned aswell. cause its violation against women too. There is just the male way of thinking in sexuality, cause of the patriachat. so even homosexuality is influenced by heterosexual violation idea, caused by men.

in 1993 there was a lesbian erotic magazine out. There was a woman on the cover, who was bodypainted. And underlined it said “DAWN WAN IN FLAMES” cause there were flames beside her body. Dawn wan (asian woman) had the idea herself to be shown in this way. DAP (dykes against porn) protested in front of the shops where this magazine was sold. Sprayed and rioted in front of these shops. Dawn said, that it was her idea and she wanted to be shown in this way. DAP reacted “She is fuckin traitress .. the pic shows a women who is in flames, so it suggested that white lesbians want the asian women to be up in flames and burn. this would make them sexual attractive for them. So its violation!”

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 09:42

#12

allroy wrote:

Oh boy/girl!
Nevermind all the great things feminists do promoting equality, but this is ridiculous.

They should learn that replacing one dogma by another doesn’t really improve a situation.
Or as a friend of mine once said: “Ich glaube, die brauchen mal richtig einen verpölt” :o
Rude, but obviously true.

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 09:49

#13

motherh666 wrote:

I find it amazing that one group who have had to fight for tollerance and social acceptance can be so narrowminded and have such a knee-jerk reaction to something as simple as a picture of a naked woman, no matter what context it is in.

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 09:51

#14

tatty seaside town wrote:

nobody should have sex, until the patriachat is abolished

(WAS - women against sex)

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 09:57

#15

allroy wrote:

Masturbation saved my life…

Or is there something wrong with it, too?

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 09:58

#16

tatty seaside town wrote:

Hmm didn´t find any comments on that one, so far.
But it wouldn´t suprise me @ all.

The similarities between WAP (women against pornography) and some christianic ideas against pornography are very interessting.

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 10:08

#17

motherh666 wrote:

Well at least the catholic church are starting to soften up a little http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/31/wvat31.xml

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 10:33

#18

PanZer wrote:

did any woman of the wall gave her point of view yet?

here’s mine…porn is okay for me, as soon as you have had sex experiences before…lots of kids are using it to “learn” sex, and that’s leading them in a erroneous way…they try what they see and have no imagination or creativity in sex…they focuse on what they have seen and not in what would please their partners..

in other words…they masturbate in their partners instead of having sex TOGETHER…

and my own point of view in porn as a grown up woman is that each time i had the opportunity to watch one, it gave me the blurb instead of exciting me…

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 11:30

#19

tatty seaside town wrote:

important point you made:

i think more WOMen should let us know what they think about that topic!

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 13:02

#20

hoochalobster (Sarah) Super Moderator wrote:

I’m a girl. *shrug*

I don’t have a problem with porn at all, as long as it was made with the consent of all people involved and, as Allroy said, isn’t of a non-consensual nature, then fair play to ‘em. Plenty of people like to watch it and I don’t think that it’s going to encite them to rape anyone.

I don’t agree that it objectifies women either; if anything I find it rather empowering that a woman can say ‘I’m gonna make a film of me shagging and it’s gonna make me rich’ - nice one :D

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 19:50

#21

tatty seaside town wrote:

Hooch, you are the best! :)

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 20:04

#22

FNYANKEZ wrote:

my biggest problem is why do they make the movies so long? …5 minutes works for me :D

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 21:46

#23

tatty seaside town wrote:

i think it depends on the male quality how long it takes, in other words: how long you want that it takes *g*
… 10-20 minutes are usual for the length of the scenes. Its a similar length to the average sex time :)
5 minutes work for me for that when i am in a hurry, but sex time is much longer. Don´t ask me about the time, you won´t believe it anyway *ggggggggg*

Posted on Wed, 10 November 2004 at 21:53

#24

White Psycho wrote:

PanZer wrote:

in other words…they masturbate in their partners instead of having sex TOGETHER…

coloquially known as a posh wank

Posted on Thu, 11 November 2004 at 01:50

#25

White Psycho wrote:

motherh666 wrote:

Well at least the catholic church are starting to soften up a little http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/31/wvat31.xml

Problem is its really only because of declining birth rates…THIS IS A GOOD THING!

It also fucks up their idea of children as a blessing from God, if they were meant to have the child then it shouldn’t matter how often they do it, so it seems to me that they’re acknowledging that its a crock of shit.

Posted on Thu, 11 November 2004 at 01:53

#26

Misanthropologist (d) wrote:

White Psycho wrote:

It also fucks up their idea of children as a blessing from God, if they were meant to have the child then it shouldn’t matter how often they do it, so it seems to me that they’re acknowledging that its a crock of shit.

That doesn’t follow. You’re simplifying the matter too much.

Here is a counter-simplification:
‘Heaven helps those who help themselves’… ;)

Posted on Thu, 11 November 2004 at 11:42

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