Wall of Mouths

It sure was a long time ago, and history never was my fav subject.
By the way, you can donate some money to the red cross via amazon.com, to help the victims, I did it too a minute ago.

yes. peace.

i’m not going to write anymore on this subject (i’ve written enough essays on this) but i feel the need to give some facts. the terrorists that struck in new york killed possibly up to 10000 lives. that’s about A THIRD of how many innocent lives that were killed (with the direct help from usa!) in lebanon in the 80’s. where we mourning back then? no. where there any minute of silence in the whole world? no. usa is the worst modern mass murderer in our time. this is a fact, which no single ultra-patriotic american can deny. the war in vietnam caused apprx. 4 million lives. 4 million! where there a minute of silence back then? no. why? because we are being told that usa are the good guys. the one’s they’re fighting are always the bad guys. usa/christian/jewish GOOD - communism/islam/other religions or believes BAD. as i wrote, it’s a horrible thing that’s happened in new york. nobody sane wanted this to happen. but it’s clear why it happened, it was an attack on the american imperialism, they wanted revenge on millions killed by usa. it’s also clear that usa is going to fight a war against the muslims in the world. in fact, they have been fighting muslims for decades, mostly as a part in the never ending israel/palestina conflict. if they fight terrorists, that’s fine. muslims, not fine. it’s tragic if usa decides to strike back against whole countries and not just the terrorists, it could possibly cause some serious problems in the long run. there are over 40 million muslims living in europe. if the war (yes, george w. bush calls it a war) against muslims don’t stop in the near future, will usa fight the muslims in europe too if they decides to get involved? then they’re not only fighting against all the muslims in the world, they could be fighting europe too. how exciting. who are the real terrorists, usa or the muslims?

You killed 200 hundred civils in iraq when all you had to do was hurting saddam hussein or his army.
If you make war to afghanistan you’ll kill many more people that have nothing to do with talebans or terrorists.

then what about the embargo to iraq that makes people die for lack of medicines and doesn’t hurt saddam at all?

The current shit happening in the US is of course tragic and I’m really sorry for all people that died and for their families. An employee of my company was on one of the planes who crashed into the WTC.

Of course, I support ths US in their battle against terrorism. I work in Brussels and that city’s one big mess as well. A fews days ago they found a lot of bombing material in a kebab shop. There are plans of bombing the NATO building. These acts of terror should be stopped immediately.

I don’t support the way things are done though …
The US should first know exactly who was the mind and the organisation behind these crimes, not bomb a county in a way of revenge. There’s a lot of nuclear bombing material placed in the mountains of Afghanistan. Does anybody realise what could be the consequences of the whole fuckin’ shit falls into pieces around there ? But that’s not Bush’s concern, fuck the Kyoto conventions he says. Do they want another Tsjernobyl ? That will not only harm Afghanistan and their innocent people, it will be a disaster for environment in all the nearby countries.

I respect you a lot Brendon, but I don’t respect American politics. Of course the US helped us at war and we’re glad they did. Just don’t say it’s because of the true meaning of help. America will seldom help countries because of charity. There’s always a political or economical reason behind it. Do you really think they would have chased Saddam if it wasn’t for the oil ? If there was no economical interest in Koeweit, nothing would have happened.

I just hate Bush and the suckers that voted for him. Belgium wanted to send help to NY. Due to the shit that happened in my country a few years ago with Dutroux, we have some specialists (how do I say this ?) in finding and recognizing human bodies. America refused this help because of political reasons (Bush didn’t like the coalition in Belgium).

The state of America doesn’t have to pretend to be the innocent victim now. They supply every country with war equipment all over the world.

I respect the people in America, but fuck their politics, it stinks like a rotten rat …

well, I guess it’s pointless to carry on a discussion about that. Many people dislike t US-politics, and many do not. I”m tired of the ‘the US did this and that, that’s the price they have to pay’, as well as I’m tired of the ‘but the US only do it for peace, defending freedom and bla bla’ talk I think we’ll have to wait, and we’ll see in time how things turn out. Which will hopefully be good - we won’t have an influence on it anyway.

i agree, to debate this is pretty pointless.. however, i read an article on the internet by noam chomsky the other day and he wrote that history shows that usa has helped terrorists many times. but only the terrorists that they, usa, would have any use for. ten years ago, usa helped to ‘create’ the infamous usama bin ladin and his organistation, by supporting them in the war against the soviet union in the 80’s. this is a thing that americans suddenly have forgot. (or more likely, doesn’t know, being among the most ignorant people in the world). for years the cia and others pumped in millions of dollars to theology student groups in pakistan, which later become to be talebans.

this was chomsky’s words, not mine.. and chomsky is an american. so i guess there are some wise people in the us :)

..and I think people in N. Ireland and England wouldn’t agree with you about knowing nothing about terrorism, if you think about it.

Roni, we can’t exactly follow biblical law. The majority of the world doesn’t even follow the bible. The argument that Israel doesn’t belong to the Palestinians because the bible says so wouldn’t mean shit to a Shinto or a Hindu person.

The problem isn’t that one person is living on another person’s land. The problem is that militant psychos feel that God wants them to kill everyone else. They basically adapt their holy teachings to suit their psychotic cause.

If there is indeed a God, I’d imagine he’d be pretty pissed off at the shit that gets carried out in his name.

Oh dear cant beleive some of the things i’m reading. Didnt have time to read everyone’s posts but i’m glad we’re talking about it.
Those talking about ‘bombing’ other countries have no clue what thier talking about and are definately ignorant of the history that made way for that tragedy on Sept 11.
The most important question we have to ask is, WHY DID THIS HAPPEN? And the answer to that is - it’s not so easy to point the finger.
For years the US has collaborated with right-wing groups in other countries to topple the left in thier socities. The results of such actions have been horrendous. For example, Nicagarua, Guatemala, Chile and the list goes on and on. The tragedy in New York City is nothing compared to it.
Even the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 was a result of American efforts to completely wipe out any democratic elements in that Country.
None of this would have happened if we’d held our politicians accountable for what they were doing in other countries. We the people need to wake up.
And as for that talk about the US helping Europe in WW11 is laughable. When did the US send troops? Right at the very end. Why? Because where was Hitler heading to? The Middle East! And what’s in the Middle East? Did someone say oil? Hmm…His army was all over North Africa, near the middle east and that sent alarm bell’s ringing.
Did we really go to help the Jews? Bullshit. Thousands of fleeing jews were ending up on the shore’s of New York City and were being sent away. We couldnt care less. Oh dear, I’m sure the Statue of Liberty wept her eyes out.
My advise to these shit-talking war mongers. Pick up a book- educate yourselves.
Violence doesnt solve anything, because if it did, we would have had peace long ago.
Dig?

Happy B, Brendon!

St.

The US had no choice but to go to WW11. One reason being Hitler’s advance towards the middle east. The other reason was because the Russians were coming from the east. If the US had not gone to war, the Russians would have taken over most of europe.
Second of all, the US did help rebuild Europe after WWII. The question to ask is, WHY? The answer to that is because all of Western Europe (heck of all europe)would have fallen to communism, (the Soviet ‘communism’ that is, aka not ‘communism’) if the US hadnt helped. Therefore there werent any HUMANITARIAN motives for helping, but just a simple case of narrow self interest.
This pattern applies to almost all US foreign policy, which has had devestating conseqeuences.
There have been conflicts around the world where the US could have acted, but didnt because it didnt have to. There was nothing in it for them, so they stayed away. For example the massacres in Rwanda in 1994- no one was interested.
The truth is that we’re addicted to oil. We cant cure our addiction, therefore we have to maintain a presence in the middle east. We support the most brutal regimes in that region but still have the gall to claim, we’re there for freedom. For example, Saudia Arabia, after the Taliban, is the most fundamentalist country in the world, but we dont get to hear that. We justify those sanctions against Iraq which has so far claimed millions of life by saying Saddam is a dictator. But it never occurs to anyone that Saudi Arabia is no different.
It is in the US interest there be ‘stability (read tight suppression of the people)’ in that region because of the presence of oil. Lo and behold- we therefore have troops there to keep that ‘stability.’ It is interesting to note that none of those regimes in the middle east have the backing of their own people but ironically have the backing of the US. What happened to freedom and all those good things?
If it werent for oil we would not be there.
Another pattern of thought that’s prevalent is that- those ‘terrorists’ attacked because they were against all forms of ‘democracy,’ ‘freedom’ and the ‘western way of life.’ Once again, BULLSHIT. All those statements above are self-serving nonsense, espoused merely to prevent others from truly understanding the conflict at hand.
Had this been an attack on the ‘western way of life’ , the terrorists wouldn’t have had to go too far. They could have gone next door to Europe. But they didnt. Instead they planned with the most care and precision , thier trip across the ocean. This was in response to US policies, they they had been wronged by.
The US at the moment is the worlds only super power. There never has been a state (or empire) as powerful. It therefore foolishly thinks it can do as it wishes.
There never has been a state that had any concern for human rights. States are immoral. But we as citizens and indivduals do have the power to act and analyze. We are all responsible for that tragedy. We need to act and hold those accountable who are making these deicisions for us. We need to let them know we dont want you interfering in others affairs for your own narrow petty interests. We need to let them know we dont want you arming dictators who are so intent on killing for our good. All this has to stop.
The Iran Contra Affair once again is an example used by the media and the indoctrinated public to prove that we live in a ‘democracy’ and that the politicans were held ‘accountable.’ BULLSHIT. At the same time that the hearings were happening, there were more SERIOUS crimes being commited in Cetral America, especially Nicaragua which no one got to hear about. No one ever was held responsible for that genocide in Nicaragua (hundred of thousands massacred by US backed armed forces in an attempt to overthrow a democratically elected goverments which refused to bow to US economic (read greed)interests.)The contra affair was a cover up to keep people’s minds of the more serious crimes. Had the public been aware as to what was happening- there’s no way they would have allowed it.
Evil does not start and end with the middle east. Nor does it belong to any particular group of people. Bombing Afghanistan will not solve anything. ‘What you reap is what you sow.’ If we are intent on showing no concern for the human rights and dignity of others, it’s a matter of time they show the same to us.
Wake up to the power’s that be and scream ‘NO MORE WAR.’

About WWII: Firstly the USA was dragged into the war by the Pearl-Harbor incident. After that it became a ‘prestige’ battle against the russians. As general Patton said: ‘I want to get to Berlin first, faster than those russians’. And indeed US did anything to prevent further communist ‘exploration’. It wasn’t a question of oil back than, but certainly decades later. The USA are the largest oil consumers in the world. And they need it BAD.