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To Sabotage

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Started by mr self destruct

I’m intrigued by your signature quote. I watched the Patricia Cornwell TV prog and she convinced me Walter Sickert was JTR. I’m getting the book for Xmas and can’t wait to read it.

So what gives?

Posted on Thu, 19 December 2002 at 23:17

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#1

Sabotage wrote:

Hi
I watched that programme too. Great stuff, but I find the case against Sickert to be weak.
Haven’t read the book yet, cos I’m reading some others.
My top books on the subject (and they are very popular amongst Ripperologists) are…
The History of Jack The Ripper by Philip Sugden (the best IMO)
The Mammoth Book of Jack The Ripper
The A-Z of Jack The Ripper

Then there are loads of others in varying degrees of accuracy/quality/truth and so on.

I’d advise anyone to get Sugden’s book first then go from there.

I will post a bigger reply later today when I can get my laptop back.
In the meantime go here…> http://www.casebook.org <… This is a serious site where various writers, researchers etc post their thoughts and ideas.
Loads of data on here which I’ve been trying to read for ages now, but there’s just so much!

To summarise then…
After what I’ve read, I’ve arrived at 2 hot suspects…

William Bury (actually did kill at least 1 woman with a knife. his wife)
George Chapman (actually did kill 3 women by poison)

Aside from these 2 there are…

James Kelly (stabbed wife to death in neck)
Joseph Barnett (hated whores)
Aaron Kosminsky/David Cohen (known lunatic)
Francis Tumblety (hated women with a passion)
Thomas Cutbush (stabbed women)

Then there are fringe (IMO) candidates such as…

Walter Sickert (as per TV prog)
MJ Druitt (insane)
R. D´Onston Stephenson (unusual interest in the case at the time)
James Maybrick (wrote a diary which may be forged. personally I think it’s fake, else he is No1)

after these guys you get to the absolute nonsense suspects like Lewis Carroll, The Royal Family, The Freemasons etc.

catch you later…
Sab

Posted on Fri, 20 December 2002 at 09:39

#2

Ronald wrote:

also to sabotage: whenever I see your name appear here I start to hear the scratching of the song sabotage by the Beastie Boys!

Posted on Fri, 20 December 2002 at 12:11

#3

Alan wrote:

Ha ha! And I thought it was just me!

I know it’s an album by Sabbath, but I can’t get the Beastie Boys tune out of my head when I see your name!

“Sabotage!!”
Da da - Da da… da da - da da
“I can’t stand it, I think you planned it”…yadda, yadda, etc…

sorry - it’s Christmas and I’m giddy :-)

Posted on Fri, 20 December 2002 at 12:39

#4

Ronald wrote:

I do NOT hope that there is ever anybody coming on this board calling himself ” Last Christmas”

I’d kill myself probably!

Posted on Fri, 20 December 2002 at 13:26

#5

Karl wrote:

[quote=Alan]Ha ha! And I thought it was just me!

Thank you very much, now I have got the same tune in my head!! Gotta go out and buy a curly wig and glasses now!!!!

Posted on Fri, 20 December 2002 at 13:58

#6

Sabotage wrote:

I’ve heard that Beasty Boys song but can’t remember how it goes.

Here’s some very edited bumf on the Whitechapel murders and a very brief synopsis on MY top 2 suspects.

2 Assaults then 6 Murders in the Whitechapel area in 1888

Annie Millwood
Saturday 25 February 88
White’s Row
Attacked by man with clasp knife and stabbed numerous times in legs and lower body. Died weeks later due to an unrelated illness.

Ada Wilson
Tuesday 28 March 88
9 Maidman St. Burdett Rd. Mile End
Attacked at home by a man who stabbed her in the neck with a clasp knife. Lived.

Martha Tabram
Tuesday 7 August 88 after a Bank Holiday Monday.
George Yard
Murdered at 2.30am? 39 stab wounds
Found at 4.45am.

Mary Ann “Polly” Nichols
Friday 31 August 88
Buck’s Row
Murdered at 3.30am? Neck and body slashed violently
Found at 3.40am

Annie Chapman
Saturday 8 September 88
Hanbury St
Murdered at 5.30am? Neck and Body slashed violently. Organs taken.
Found at 6.00am

“Long” Liz Stride
Sunday 30 September 88
Dutfield’s Yard. Berner St
Murdered at 1.00am? Neck slashed. No bodily mutilations
Found at 1.00am interrupted?

Catharine “Kate” Eddowes
Sunday 30 September 88
Mitre Square, a short way from Dutfield’s Yard.
Murdered at 1.40am? Neck slashed and face was violently disfigured. Organs taken.
Found at 1.45am

Mary Jane Kelly
Friday 9 November 88
13 Miller’s Court
Murdered 4.00am? Body and face completely destroyed. Awful mutilations. Heart taken.
Found 10.45am

My top 2 suspects.
George Chapman (aka Severin Klosowski)
He was found guilty of murdering 3 “wives”. In other words, he was a known multiple killer. He lived and worked in the East End. He had some medical knowledge due to his work in Poland as a surgeon’s assistant before coming to the East End in 1887. However, it must be said that his age in 1888, 23, is at least 5 years below the estimate of one witness to JTR (30-35), and a good deal more years below the ages given in general. Although in other aspects of appearance he fits very well. It also seems unlikely that if Chapman was JTR, he would change his MO so drastically after the Whitechapel murders, and then resort to poisoning. This though, is not an absolute “rule” of serial killers. They have been known to change MO in order to delude the police and escape detection. Moved to the US in April 1891. Returned to the East End in June 1892, then poisoned 3 “wives” before being found guilty in 1903 and executed.

William Bury.
Again, another very good suspect. He was found guilty of murdering his wife, with a knife, and apparently with similar mutilations to some of the Whitechapel murders. He lived in Bow, which isn’t a great distance from Whitechapel itself. His age fits in with the JTR profile, and apparently so does his general description. He was a known violent drunk, and fits the FBI profile of JTR very well. Alleged circumstantial evidence in the graffiti at his Dundee home (“Jack the Ripper is in the sellar”) is merely that, but interesting none the less. As is his conversation with his hangman (“I suppose you think you are clever to hang ME”), and the fact that CID from London attended his execution in Dundee in March 1889. His confession to Dundee police upon his wife’s death does seem a bit too bizarre for the calculating JTR though. Some cock and bull story that she had committed suicide. Also there is no evidence of medical knowledge, although I believe him to be an ex-horse slaughterer. It would be a great help to learn more about Bury, as little is known of him before he moved to the East End from Stourbridge, West Midlands in 1887. He left Bow and moved to Dundee in January 1889. 29 years old in 1888.

If it wasn’t for Bury’s weird confession to Dundee police that his wife had committed suicide, I would make him a 95% cert. That doesn’t sound like Jack to me.
Chapman’s “idleness” for years after the 1888 murders isn’t a pointer to him being Jack either.

You pays your money and take your choice.
Sabotage

Posted on Fri, 20 December 2002 at 15:07

#7

mr self destruct wrote:

Interesting stuff, Sab. I’ll get back to you after I’ve read the Cornwell book ;)

Posted on Sun, 22 December 2002 at 19:41

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