Wall of Mouths

Hehe, I understand what you’re saying. :)

Andy wrote:

Ah but d? I’d say that within whats already been said God would have a certain amount of such qualities - the references are to such texts that do pertain to it.

If the God we’re talking about here was just to be something such as vibration then no, those ideas would not be true as its all much more a case of coming into and then moving out of being - something canin effect, come from nothing etc. But I don’t feel that its not part of the premise here.

I needs me bed! :p

I do actually agree (I dont think there’s any need for a shaming :P): within the broader argument(s), those sorts of assumptions about qualities are being made. But Smum, specifically, wasn’t making those sorts of assumptions when she was talking about ironically becoming a god if she created a universe (& I shudder to imagine it…). She’s not, therefore, committed to any of the ‘extraneous’ qualities of, for example, the Christian God. For a Christian God, creation of the universe is a necessary, but not sufficient, requirement for godhood. Whereas in the case she was describing, creation of a new universe is entirely sufficient.

So nyer. ;)

Of course they are in a tiny minority!! They make up a small percentage of only 2 major religions - so when stacked up next to the population of the World you wouldn’t even be able to make out the colour on a pie chart! You can check out some figures at http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_coun.htm if you feel the need. Religious extremists might well lie about their activities but they are hardly going to turn round and deny their faith! And of course most people don’t recognise faith as a justification for murder or hatred - if they did we would already be bang in the middle of Armageddon.

And the ‘normal’ blokes from our city (you cheeky f**ker!!) did blow people up on the underground and nobody in their right minds thought it was a good thing, but there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that if George Dubya and TB hadn’t waded into the Middle East and started threatening everybody it wouldn’t have happened. “Shall we hunt down Al Qaeda and prove they can’t get away with this? - No - I know what, lets stir up a whole heap of trouble all over the Middle East and make damn sure that American companies get control of all their resources and hopefully they’ll all sit down round a big table and thank us kindly”. The guy is a fucking psychopath and all this growth in ‘religious’ extremism is because when people are panicked and terrified they will react in whatever way they can to prevent it happening again.

I’m not denying that religious extremism is spreading - I’m simply saying that people’s faith in God isn’t the same thing as organised religion or religious extremism, and that you picking arguments with Jehovas Witnesses isn’t going to make the world a safer place, any more than Dawkins book is.

It’s quite funny writing a book about an opinion. :D Nobody knows for 100 % certainty that there is a god or not.

It’s the same with Evolution and the Big Bang - they are just theories..nobody is 100% positive.

It will sell because there are plenty of people who will buy a book if they are atheists and they need some quotes to tell their friends who believe in god to make them feel smart or something.

Like the Da Vinci Code - Dan Brown has said its only fiction but that doesnt stop loads of atheists reading it and feeling self satisfied.

I saw a TV show a while back called ” the problem with atheists ” and it was basically showing them as in your face and convinced about their opinion as believers, saying its almost a religion in its own right, so whats the difference ? :D

First things first - ta d! :D

*alters d’s fate and re-creates him as a man of abundant talents, charm and wit*

Sam, you’ve gone from saying you enjoy arguing with Jehova’s Witnesses to conjuring up a direct link between my auntie’s private worship and the terrors your unborn children might possibly face in the event of the 3rd World War. Are these your private theories or have you spent too much time studying atheist literature? ;)

@Squall - I’m an atheist and i thought the Da Vinci code was a pile of shite :)

@Kyle - Hilarious is always good. And Happy Birthday!

Ok. But when you realise that the only way you can get an in-depth analysis about the effects of religion on the modern world that supports your views is by reading The Sun don’t come running to me for help. I will be at the bottom of your mountain, cashing in on the tourist dollar :p

I suppose partly it’s upbringing. It’s very difficult to start believing in something so ludicrous when you haven’t been influenced (brainwashed if you prefer) as a child. Pygmy children probably don’t suddenly start believing in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy, and really for me to believe in God would be the same sort of thing. Secondly there is no actual evidence at all, as far as I am aware, to support the existence of God. Thirdly it’s because it’s very easy for me to see how and why belief in God could have started and become ‘necessary’ for primitive people, how and why it has always been very convenient for spiritual and political leaders to maintain and cultivate that belief and how after hundreds of generations it is so much a part of everyone’s culture it would be very difficult for people to break out of, especially in religions such as Catholicism where the whole education side for children seems to be to scare the crap out of them.

I suspect that a lot of religious people probably have doubts at times - but to abandon belief in God would seem so disloyal and terrible that they are not prepared to explore the possibility. In fact one of Anna’s schoolfriends came from a family of Evangelical Christians. Something really terrible happened and the mother completely lost her faith and stopped believing in God, but she still allowed her husband to continue to take the kids to church and pray for her. I suppose that’s because to actively preach the non-existence of God to her children might have driven a huge wedge between husband and wife. To be honest I didn’t really care what they believed at all until one night Anna told me that her friend had cried herself to sleep at a sleepover because she honestly believed that Anna (being unbaptised) was going to go to Hell. I can’t understand how a mother with no faith can allow her child to suffer like that over something she doesn’t even believe in herself!

Anyway - like it or not it’s ingrained in our society and there’s not much point trying to rip it out because it would leave so many gaping holes all over the place we’d probably end up with anarchy and chaos. And for all it’s a romantic ideal I reckon that rather than a free society we’d be straight back to survival of the fittest.

Thanks for the support Dennis, I thought I’d killed the thread! :D

I’d forgotten you used to be religious. It must actually take a lot of courage to do that mental unravelling, but I’m curious - did you find it scary or just sad / disappointing? Or was it just a relief that it made sense to you? And what did your family make of it all?

That’s a really good description - I had no idea you could be so articulate! ;)

I only wondered if it was scary because if you had the slightest doubt in your mind I would have expected you to feel a bit apprehensive about pissing off an omnipotent being. But then I suppose if you had the slightest doubt in your mind then you wouldn’t be an atheist anyway. It’s interesting that your brothers came to the same conclusion though. Had you talked about it or did you all just end up in the same place by coincidence?

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.myfreecolouri … 3Den%26sa% 3DG

Careful what you wish for and all that…

Ok, it is more of a scooter than a motorbike, but who the hell do you think I am? God?

What does he know about anything? - he’s just got a silly robot voice and that fancy wheelchair…

Bloody hell Gav - did you colour that yourself? :D

I suppose it would confuse newbies and non-Gracious Me-ers too much if I were to launch into an explanation of why I believe in Gav - but it’s primarily to do with Heysatan. There’s irony for you …

No they’re not :( Why didn’t you phone me? I would have been interested in that if I could have pretended it wasn’t Richard and Judy.