#61
Lola wrote:
Gimme Back My Brainsaw wrote:
so am i right in thinking irelands government are giving them a vote but in the uk we have no choice?
the Irish government have no choice because amendments can only be made to our Constitution by referendum, so if the people vote no then the constitution cannot be changed and the Lisbon Treaty cannot be ratified
Posted on Wed, 17 December 2008 at 23:22 in reply to an earlier post
#62
g (Does everything start with destruction?) wrote:
so i guess i should be saying Thank fuck for ireland.
Posted on Wed, 17 December 2008 at 23:26
#63
Lola wrote:
but it seems like the EU is pressing on with the Lisbon Treaty in any case and leaning on the irish government to have another referendum next year…so they’ll change a few things and put it to the vote again…
Posted on Wed, 17 December 2008 at 23:29
#64
CS (Colin S) wrote:
If Ireland still says no (please keep it that way) then will it not be passed as a whole?
Posted on Thu, 18 December 2008 at 00:11
#65
Lola wrote:
it looks like they’ll continue with or without ireland…or maybe that’s what they’re just telling us to scare us into thinking that we’ll be left behind or something like that…i find the whole thing totally confusing…we’re being fed bullshit from every angle, telling us we’re stupid for voting no, that we’re being marginalised now etc…
Posted on Thu, 18 December 2008 at 00:25
#66
Lola wrote:
i could be totally wrong though…all i know for sure is that i’m confused :-(
Posted on Thu, 18 December 2008 at 00:26
#67
Gav wrote:
I hope Ireland stick to their guns!
We recently voted no for the Manc congestion charge - we were told by the powers that be that it was a one-off chance for spending on the transport infrastructure, and if we voted no - the money was gone - no plan B. Trying to scare people into voting yes.
So we voted no… and lo and behold - now they are saying we still might get some of the money and there are other options on the table.
Posted on Thu, 18 December 2008 at 08:06
#68
KJC Dublin (Karl) wrote:
They are going to deploy scare tactics (e.g. Ireland will lose face and get kicked out of the EU) and use the current economical climate as tools to try and sway a “yes” vote.
Sark the sly fucker is acting like a “yes” vote is the only outcome, the Swedish government has recommended that Ireland be excluded from the EU should they vote “no” - fuck them all is what I say.
As for our Muppet government, I am pretty much convinced that not one of them has actually read or even understood the treaty for that matter.
Apparently they have ironed out special clauses for Ireland regarding taxation etc. , but I think it is probably all bullshit.
At this point in time I can see myself voting “No” again, but I think many will be scared / forced into voting “Yes”
Yay democracy in Europe…
They had better do their bloody best to remove any doubt from the peoples minds is ally have to say.
Posted on Thu, 18 December 2008 at 12:01
#69
mrs h wrote:
This looks at quite a few of the more controversial points and tries to convert the legal jargon into English, but it’s still by no means an easy read.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6928737.stm
My personal view would be ‘if in doubt, say no’. The Irish have a responsibility to the whole of Europe, seeing as no-one else gets a vote!!
Posted on Thu, 18 December 2008 at 18:27
#70
Lenny wrote:
KJC Dublin wrote:
They are going to deploy scare tactics (e.g. Ireland will lose face and get kicked out of the EU) and use the current economical climate as tools to try and sway a “yes” vote.
What about the scare tactics and lies used by the no campaign? My particular favourite is the poster printed over a copy of the 1916 proclomation saying “people died for your freedom - dont give it away”.
If people read the FACTS for themselves instead of listening to hacks on the radio and shitty newspapers spouting their agendas then the country might be in a better state. Our country is fucked beacuse people won’t think for themselves - they vote for the party their father votted for ‘cos thats the Irish way - muppets.
The country is being managed by a bunch of self serving incompetents and misinformation is being spouted by people who consider themselves “experts”. And worse the peopple who listen to this are then the most vocal in repeating what’s been said…
Posted on Mon, 22 December 2008 at 01:02 in reply to an earlier post
Last edited by hoochalobster on Mon, 22 December 2008 at 01:09 (Corrected use of quotes)
#71
KJC Dublin (Karl) wrote:
Try getting the facts on this treaty - I wish you good luck trying to make any sense of it.
As for the statement regarding the “No” campaigners - I totally agree. I also totally agree that our government is a sham - they have lost touch with reality.
Posted on Mon, 22 December 2008 at 07:57
#72
Cuchulain wrote:
Not allowed to vote myself but the missus voted yes last time around and will do so again.
All the Irish Government has to do is put to the voters in plain english what they are voting for to calm people down, they didn’t do so last time around which was to the benefit of the no campaigners with their scaremongering and bullying tactics.
Either way , Ireland got some provisions in the treaty and can have their commissioner so I don’t see why people would still vote no this time around. Lisbon will go ahead with or without Ireland.
Vote no again and Ireland will be sort of frozen out and effectively end up in a scenario like Iceland.
Also remember that for decades , the EU has been bankrolling the Celtic Tiger and only for that all the no voters should hang their heads in shame.
Freeloaders like the Irish farmers and fishermen have been going cap in hand to the EU for years over the heads of other countries’ taxpayers.
It’s the same people that are voting no that are the first ones to complain when the government turns back the closing times of pubs and clubs in the city here.
Besides that , the Shinners were campaigning for the no vote last time around and that’s enough reason to vote yes imo.
Posted on Mon, 22 December 2008 at 12:18
#73
KJC Dublin (Karl) wrote:
Well, I don’t think it is a matter that we should vote yes simply because we received funding from Europe - that is a somewhat narrow minded view IMO.
I agree with the scaremongering from the No campaingners, but there was plenty of that from our own government also (we will be frozen out of Europe, our economy will collapse, yadda yadda) - you can’t make either side out to Saints in this matter at all.
During the lead up to the vote our government was incapable of pointing to areas in the treaty which cancelled out any statements made by the No camp - if they can take care of that next time around I would be more inclined to vote “yes”.
Do you not honestly find it kind of scary though that they are willing to push on with the treaty even though one member state has declined? Where is the democracy in that? Is this how a united Europe is supposed to function.
And let’s be honest about another thing, do your really think that it would have passed in all member states if it had gone to public vote? I think that France and Holland were prime examples of this not being the case.
Yes I am very grateful for all the funding that Europe has put into Ireland, but I do not see how that relates to this treaty at all. If that were the case we would be talking blackmail.
I also however do not trust the intentions of the No campaigners - they definitely have an alterior motive.
Let’s hope that BIFFO and his muppets do it right this time around because it is not going to be easy. I reckon there will be folk who will vote “No” simply because they are being asked to vote again.
Posted on Mon, 22 December 2008 at 12:58
#74
Cuchulain wrote:
Can’t argue with most of that , KJC.
Not the biggest ‘Europe’ apologist myself , but still think it’s better to be inside the tent pissing out than the other way around.
Posted on Tue, 23 December 2008 at 09:24
#75
KJC Dublin (Karl) wrote:
Oh well, we will just have to wait and see I guess.
I will do my best to get more informed this time and will make my decision based on that, not on the threat of being excluded from Europe or on the generousity which has been spend rebuilding this country.
Posted on Tue, 23 December 2008 at 09:39
