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Fahrenheit 9/11

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Started by 3ddo-on-the-balcony (eddo)

Most, if not all, of you must have heard or read that The Walt Disney Company is blocking its Miramax division from distributing a new documentary by Michael Moore that harshly criticizes President Bush.

Disney receives a great sum of money each year from the government of Floriday. We all know that George W´s brother is governor of that state. In fact Jed is the one who, together with the supreme court (all elected by Bush senior) selected George W. as president of the US.

The film, “Fahrenheit 9/11,” links the Bush family with prominent Saudis, including the family of Osama bin Laden. It describes financial ties that go back three decades and explores the role of the government in evacuating relatives of Mr. bin Laden from the United States shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

The way I see it, is that the president select knew attacks were going to take place and that he used these attacks to start a (what I call illegal) war in Iraq because of the oil fields, and to establish a stronghold in the Middle East in order to support the criminal Sharon administration in Israel. Without the Jewish lobby in the US, Bush will never be re(s)elected.

This shows once more that the most powerful country in the world is nothing more than a dictatorship run by multinationals. It is time the people of the US start a revolution and establish democracy!

Posted on Sat, 8 May 2004 at 02:01

You’re viewing replies 1–14 of 14 by 7 people

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#1

MR POO! wrote:

Although to be fair, Bowling for Columbine was a horrible, misleading, lying piece of crap that should never been 100 yards near an Oscar.

Posted on Sat, 8 May 2004 at 17:28

#2

Citizen Erased wrote:

Michael Moore should show his humanity by sharing the pies, and not keeping them all for himself.

His shows on BBC2 and Ch4 were always pretty good and so are the books that I’ve read , although I don’t think he gives a greatly balanced view of the world.

Show him live a couple of years ago, and Aaron Barshack(sp?) suddenly jumped out from the crowd - no-one knew him then (all pre-Prince Hairy), so we didn’t know if it was a part of the show, a nutter, or a real (i.e. dangerous) loon.

But no, just a nutter.

Posted on Sat, 8 May 2004 at 17:36

#3

3ddo-on-the-balcony (eddo) wrote:

MR POO! wrote:

Although to be fair, Bowling for Columbine was a horrible, misleading, lying piece of crap that should never been 100 yards near an Oscar.

That’s a statement. Where are the arguments?

Posted on Sat, 8 May 2004 at 22:28

#4

3ddo-on-the-balcony (eddo) wrote:

Citizen Erased wrote:

Michael Moore should show his humanity by sharing the pies, and not keeping them all for himself.

Who knows he does or doesn’t? You also say that you don’t think he gives a greatly balanced view of the world. This may be so. Is your view of the world so greatly balanced? And what about mine? I know I’m prejudiced, I’m what Bush would call a fucking commy!
But hell, that’s not what interests me. What interests me is that there are and should be more people asking questions to their governments about why they are participating in an illegal war in and against Iraq! Unfortunately ‘my’ government is amonsgt them and so are the US, ‘Great’ Britain, Spain and Italy.

We’ve all seen the photographs, we all heard Bush, Rumsfeld and Blair. It’s obvious that they should be trialed for war crimes. But I’m sure they’ll get away with it. The bastards on the ‘winning’ side always do. It makes me so angry.

So why talk about what Michael Moore should do with his money. There are more important issues!

Posted on Sat, 8 May 2004 at 23:37

#5

MR POO! wrote:

3ddo-on-the-balcony wrote:

That’s a statement. Where are the arguments?

The ‘getting the gun free from the bank’ scene was edited and altered and also pre-pepared a month in advance.

Quote (author unknown):

From The Bowling for truth website:

It’s an accurate depiction of the intent of the scene. The scene, dubbed “Michael at the Bank” is a good example of what can be brushed off and casually justified as what has been called ‘artistic lying.’ The scene opens in a branch of the North Country Bank, with Moore supposedly receiving a free gun in exchange for opening an account. North County Bank — like several other banks in the United States — allows people who buy a Certificate of Deposit to receive their interest in the form of a rifle or shotgun. The depositor thereby receives the full value of the interest immediately, rather than over a term of years. The scene has Moore discovering an ad in a local Michigan paper touting that if you open an account at North Country Bank & Trust, the bank (“more bang for your buck!”) will give you a gun.

Moore goes to the bank, is greeted by a customer service representative and moves on to an unnamed teller who goes through the necessary paperwork (which looks ridiculously simple) for Moore to open an account. Moore goes through the process of buying the CD and answering questions for the federal Form 4473 registration sheet. Although a bank employee makes a brief reference to a “background check,” the only thing we see is Moore filling out a form where he says he is not crazy, or a criminal - and of course, that he’s white; although he stumbles on spelling the word ‘Caucasian’ (which I actually had to just fix on spell checker) to further paint the process as unofficial and unsafe while feeding his ‘Stupid White Men’ theme in the same punch.

The audience never sees the process whereby the bank requires Moore to produce photo identification, then contacts the FBI for a criminal records check on Moore, before he is allowed to take possession of the rifle. Moments later, Moore is handed his new rifle in the North Country Bank & Trust lobby, at which point he asks another unnamed bank employee, “Do you think it’s a little dangerous handing out guns in a bank?”

Before the employee can respond, Moore turns his inquiry into a punchline by immediately cueing Teenage Fanclub’s rendition of the song “Take the Skinheads Bowling,” the tune to which he marches out of the bank, to be followed by the opening credits featuring black and white footage of silly white folks bowling.

It is a dazzling opening, full of energy, irony and Strangelovian absurdity. Only one problem plagues it’s cleverness: It was staged.

Staged scene

Indeed, there’s more, a lot more, to this story. In an interview, Jan Jacobson, the woman at this bank shown in the movie, says they were filmed for about an hour-and-a-half during which she explained everything to Moore in detail. But, the way things were presented in the film, Jacobson says, it looks like “a wham-bam thing.” She says she resents the way she was portrayed as some kind of “backwoods idiot” mindlessly handing out guns. She says Moore deceived her into being interviewed by saying of their long-gun-give-away program: “This is so great. I’m a hunter, a sportsman, grew up in Michigan, am an NRA member.” She says: “He went on and on and on saying this was the most unique program he’d ever heard of.” This is the first example of how Moore completely deceives and manipulates his subjects to be made to look stupid in his film. Unfortunately, it is not the last and more unfortunately, an ignorant audience plays patsy to Moore’s dishonest depiction.

Jacobson says the movie is misleading because it leaves the impression that a person can come in, sign up and walk out with a gun. But, this is not done because no guns are kept at her bank, although one would think so. She says that ordinarily a person entitled to one of the long-guns must go to a gun-dealer where the gun is shipped.

In fact, despite what BFC wants us to believe, Jacobson says there are no long-guns at her bank. The 500 guns mentioned in the movie are in a vault four hours away. But wait a second… Didn’t I see some long guns sitting right there on the rack above her shoulder? Yes - you’re not going crazy - those guns you saw (as shown in the picture up the page) are models.

She says that Moore’s signing papers in the film was just for show. His immediately walking out of the bank with a long-gun was allowed because “this whole thing was set up two months prior to the filming of the movie” when he had already complied with all the rules, including a background check.

Jacobson says the bank’s so-called “Weatherby Program” has “absolutely” been a smashing success. She says their corporate office was braced for some possible criticism because of BFC. But, they got only two calls — and these were from people wanting to know the details of the “Weatherby Program” so they, too, could get their long-guns!

A non-issue point in the first place

So the audience is left with a smug sense of the pro-gun bank’s careless craziness. Yet, aside to the falshoods the audience isn’t aware of, just a moment’s reflection on the given information shows that there is not the slightest danger. Aside from the thorough legal background check and paperwork we didn’t see, there are fundamental common sense flaws to the scene. The process of getting a ‘free gun’ isn’t quite as easy as Moore wants you to believe, and it’s not dangerous unless the person tries to use the gun as a club and wants to be quickly caught by the police.

To take possession of the gun, the depositor must:

Produce photo identification; making it inescapably certain that the robber would be identified and caught.

Give the bank at least a thousand dollars — (an unlikely way to start a robbery) (1).

Spend at least a half hour at the bank, thereby allowing many people to see and identify him, and undergo an FBI background check, which would reveal criminal convictions disqualifying most of the people inclined to bank robbery.
The label of this process being ridiculous is in fact ridiculous itself. A would-be robber could far more easily buy a handgun for a few hundred bucks on the black market, with no identification required, and would want to zip in and out of the bank as quick as possible.

Also - the bank is a licensed firearms dealer - not shooting range. They don’t hand bullets to you. Moore had to buy them later, as seen in the barbershop scene. If Moore brought his own bullets and tried to load them into the long-gun right there in the bank, it would be obvious and he’d be immediately stopped.

The ‘artistic lying’ illustrates the genius of Bowling for Columbine, in that the movie does not explicitly make these obvious points about the safety of the North County Bank’s program. Rather, the audience is simply encouraged to laugh along with Moore’s apparent mockery of the bank, without realizing that the joke is on them for seeing danger where none exists.

This theme is developed throughout the film.

check and made sucker!

Posted on Sun, 9 May 2004 at 13:20

#6

Misanthropologist (d) wrote:

I notice you didn’t quote the rest of that article, the bit where the guy ‘defends’ himself (badly, in my opinion)against the accusation that he missed the point. Not saying I disagree with you, but it’s kind of ironic that you’re editing this information to support your view, don’t you think? Anyone interested should look into it properly.

And it’s check and _mate_ ;)

Posted on Sun, 9 May 2004 at 13:51

#7

davetheswine wrote:

im a big fan of michael moore. years ago when i was young and naive, i thought he was just some outspoken pillock, but over the course of viewing his movies and reading his books i have now cast away that assumption.

i like michael moore because he says things that many americans are scared or are cant be bothered to say. it seems we “joe public” are all the same when it comes to standing up and voicing our opinion. nobody really stands up for what they beieve in anymore, just the occasional one or two. michael moore brings things into the open, i know many things are extremely biased, but isnt nearly everything we hear or see in the news?

i think this film will get released, or at least i really hope so. the problem is a large company such as disney can hold this sort of thing up in court for years.

oh well, so much for democracy in the “united” states.

Posted on Sun, 9 May 2004 at 14:10

#8

Citizen Erased wrote:

3ddo-on-the-balcony wrote:

Who knows he does or doesn’t?

My point being that there is something very ironic about hearing a very fat American critisise the American culture of excess. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, I refuse to believe that he doesn’t go large.

Posted on Sun, 9 May 2004 at 16:17

#9

MR POO! wrote:

Misanthropologist wrote:

I notice you didn’t quote the rest of that article, the bit where the guy ‘defends’ himself (badly, in my opinion)against the accusation that he missed the point. Not saying I disagree with you, but it’s kind of ironic that you’re editing this information to support your view, don’t you think? Anyone interested should look into it properly.

And it’s check and _mate_ ;)

a Touche

Could be arsed quoting the enite thing. Besides thees actually a limit to what you can post here and I was going t oquote the whole thing just to be spiteful :D but the WOM wouldnt allow me. (10 000 character limit)

besides the other stuff i didnt quote i deemed irrelevant and since it was long enough as it was i didnt want it bogged down in irrelvance.

Still http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/bank.htm
to find the whole stuff.

And i dont care :P i prefer check and madeeeeeeeeeee sucka!

Posted on Sun, 9 May 2004 at 18:09

#10

Misanthropologist (d) wrote:

:p fair enough!

Posted on Sun, 9 May 2004 at 19:09

#11

ratamahatta wrote:

bring me all the evidence you want - i’ll still believe micheal moore more often than dubya. the guys a fucking menace.

Posted on Sat, 15 May 2004 at 11:02

#12

mr self destruct wrote:

3ddo-on-the-balcony wrote:

But hell, that’s not what interests me. What interests me is that there are and should be more people asking questions to their governments about why they are participating in an illegal war in and against Iraq! Unfortunately ‘my’ government is amonsgt them and so are the US, ‘Great’ Britain, Spain and Italy.

More than enough people asked and are asking questions here in the UK, myself included. The response? Well, they were all ignored. And I got a punch in the face from a copper for my troubles.

So long as Blair is in power and in control of the police and armed forces, there’s fuck all that can be done about the situation in Iraq. Which is why Al-Qaida should try and blow him up instead of innocent British civilians, which is 100% certain to happen anyday soon…

@ Citizen Erased: Maybe it’s a glandular thing ;)

Posted on Sat, 15 May 2004 at 11:51

#13

mr self destruct wrote:

Just to continue the Anti-American theme, a thoroughly annoying blue toolbar has appeared below my Explorer toolbar. Its categories include “United States map”, “World War Two”, “Walt Disney World”, “Long Term Care” and, appropriately enough, “Therapy”.

I’ve no idea how it got there, I can’t get rid of it, and it’s annoying the fuck out of me.

Posted on Sat, 15 May 2004 at 12:04

#14

Citizen Erased wrote:

mr self destruct wrote:

@ Citizen Erased: Maybe it’s a glandular thing ;)

Possibly, but I <suspect> that there are fewer glandular problems out there than some people would have you believe. Been to Africa - no gland problems there. Been to Romania, not gland problems there, just in high-fat diet countries… hmmm…

Disney have now sold the distribution rights of Fahrenheit 9/11 to the Weinsteins, so it will have a US release. I think I’d like my movie to be a Miramax one, or else New Line…

Posted on Sat, 15 May 2004 at 13:01

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